OK just to be clear...I hope my last post didn't imply that I was 'fattist' and am now learning not to be. Nope nope nope, that wasn't my point. I know I was being slightly cryptic as I'm still working a lot of it out in my head.
By the way, did you know that 'fat' is not a dirty word? I would say at least part of the fat acceptance movement is owning the language, and not apologising or pretending to be something other that what you are. Even though I am probably what would be known as an 'inbetweenie' I am allowed to say that I am fat if I want to. I don't have to sanitise it by using words like overweight, or heavenforbid 'fluffy'.
There's not much new I can say here as there are so many FA blogs out there with many more intelligent voices, but I talk about it in this space as it seems the current obsession (ours and societys in general) with weight loss is out of control.
In 'The Age' today Catherine Deveny made an excellent point about women's magazines promoting food porn on one page, and then selling clothes you couldn't possibly hope to wear if you ate said food on another!
Weight loss is always talked about as necessary under the guise of 'health' and in some cases this may hold value - but at the same time I think for many that's just something that we say. For many I suspect it's still about appearance, beauty, and the fact that we don't feel valuable unless we feel attractive. Because let's face it, there are plenty of women who will swap health, for looking 'good'. I'm thinking those who are willing to starve themselves via purging or other means. Or those who are willing to have major surgeries to look a certain way.
Please make no mistake, I make no judgement of these women (or men) - but I do look at society in general and it's attitude towards appearance and want to give it the big finger.
As I said earlier I am probably an 'inbetweenie'. For most of my adult life I have been about 10kgs lighter than I am now. Most people probably wouldn't look at me and call me fat. Perhaps they would call me chubby or slightly overweight. Or if someone hadn't seen me for 10 years they might think 'she's put on a bit of weight'. I am coming to my point shortly by the way...I guess in my younger days a lot of my identity was tied up in how I was perceived by the opposite sex. Is this normal? For me I suppose it was. As I find myself now, mother of three, thirty six years of age, married for nearly a decade and 10kgs heavier than I was when I met my husband I still struggle daily with the negative voices in my head that tell me I'm not thin enough, not tall enough, my teeth aren't white enough, I'm not good enough.
Luckily I give those voices the finger too on most days. Because I know that my value as a person does not have one flipping thing to do with how I look, or my body mass.
So that's what my last post was a little bit about. That the evolution of my personal politics sometimes clashes with my ingrained (wrong) beliefs, but I'm working on that. And I'm really enjoying it.
PS: I must ETA a reminder to self talk about "I'll be happy when...[insert miraculous transformation or weight loss]". Because that's a big bag of BS too...
About Me
- Stitch Sista
- Mum, wife, lover, knitter, engineer, muso, writer, philosopher, dreamer ...
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Finished Objects for 2008
16 comments:
After reading this post, I had to go back and read the other one... I haven't come across the fat acceptance blogs, but I guess I have seen some of the sentiment you refer to on some forums.
I'm fat, no two ways about it. I'm 162cm (apparently i've started the shrinking phase of aging) and weigh 95.5kg, so that makes me about 30kg overweight (conservatively)...
I don't believe being fat makes me less intelligent or less attractive than my thinner counterparts, however i do believe it poses signifcant risks to my long term health and there i don't believe fat acceptance is a step in the right direction for me (or my kids).
I know that in MY case this extra fat is an outward sign of an inner issue - i eat more energy than i use to redress some inner sense of imbalance. Saying, i'm fat and i'm beautiful won't help my emotional or physical health in the long term even if it does feel good to make it known that i truly don't believe a size 10 is the ultimate outward sign of attractiveness and therefore success.
Well FWIW I don't think fat acceptance precludes working towards outer (as well as inner) health.
There is also a term HAES (health at every size), an approach which calls for intuitive eating and physical activity.
Talking about dieting is a no no on fat acceptance sites - and I really don't believe that traditional 'dieting' works for the majority of people longterm.
I remember my mum dieting throughout her life, and getting heavier and heavier. There is so much written about dieting and restricting food etc, and how assigning labels of good and bad to food causes problems, that I don't want to become repetitive here...but I know for me that restriction doesn't work on the whole. I end up craving and bingeing when I try to restrict any one type of food.
As for the fat and beautiful thing...well I actually want to examine the need to feel beautiful at all to be honest. Fat acceptance to my mind has to go deeper than saying "I'm fat but I'm still beautiful". I don't see that as a critical point (although changing the lens of the wider community to see beauty in all shapes and sizes is not a bad thing).
I need to ask myself, why is my worth tied up in my weight, my looks, my clothes, etc. If I can pick apart this stuff on an intellectual level - how can I transcend those feelings on an emotional level also.
Because I tell you, surely the energy I expend worrying about superficialities could be put to much better use.
Ooooh! Good stuff! I have to think about this! As i get older the need to be "attractive" has lessened. Maybe because i have a secure relationship and all the kids i want. However, i find i worry about not having the respect of others - particularly other women. Being fat in our society if so often equated with not having self-respect, therefore not commanding the respect of others...
Just recently i was wanting to shave my head again - i find it truly liberating to do this! The thing that stopped me is that teamed with my current psoriasis, strabimus of my left eye, crooked and gappy teeth and extra 30kg of fat, i felt that being bald might make me SO unattractive that no one would want to be associated with me...
I meant to comment on the last post and forgot...and now am commenting on this one when half asleep LOL.
I subscribe to the 'Notes from the Fatosphere', you can find it on the sidebar of the Shapely Prose blog - http://kateharding.net/
I prefer the term body acceptance as opposed to fat acceptance, because yk, all bodies are beautiful and all people need to accept their body.
I don't think fat acceptance is saying get fat because fat is beautiful, or stay fat because fat is awesome LOL.
Its merely about saying that fat people are people too...just like anyone else and don't deserve to be discriminated against just as gay people don't, women don't, children don't, disabled people don't etc.
Personally I think it does help my mental health to think that I am fat and beautiful, to let go of the notion that thin=beautiful or thin=success. If I can escape that mentality then I can look at food and eating issues, or my many other issues LOL, without that bullshit clouding my thoughts.
And if fat acceptance means seeing fat people as fellow people, equal to others, beautiful beings who are worthy, then I *do* think fat acceptance is a good thing and it is something I would want for my kids because what's the message otherwise?? Fat=bad? Fat=less worthy?? All people are worthy.
Not sure if that makes sense twas a bit rambly :)
I also subscribe to SP April, and so have followed a lot of the links and you'll find me commenting there a bit lately too...
FTR I am happy for people to think they are beautiful, fat or skinny etc. But I do want to know why it is so important to 'feel' beautiful anyway.
There is so much emphasis on this it drives me batty.
And I agree with the other stuff you are saying. To me this is about looking at the way we discriminate, ultimately.
Anyway kids going mental, will be back to say more later.
hmm, that's a good question...
I don't know, I suppose it comes from a place where people wish to be accepted. And that people think that it they aren't beautiful then they must be ugly, and ugly is unacceptable, or something like that...??
Perhaps it would be more helpful to think of fat acceptance in more simple terms...and think of it merely as it is...the acceptance of fat people. Forget the label of 'beautiful' and perhaps change it to thinking of them positively instead, iykwim?
I am fat, I don't know how much I weigh, I think possibly similar to Sif and to be honest beauty isn't my desire, what I struggle with is to think that I am worthy and good enough.
I have sort of the opposite problem(?) because I'm not fat. But I'm not a stick either I think I'm at a good weight. That's not the problem but what is is that I find myself apologising for it to my friends. I lost all my pregnancy weight within 4 weeks of giving birth both times and not by doing anything special - that's just the way my body seems to work. (I actually freaked out a bit after number 1 because all the books I'd read said that wasn't supposed to happen.) And now I'm about 4-5kg lighter again which is due, I assume, to breastfeeding. I'll probably put that back on when I stop but that's ok.
My good friend, who is weight obsessed, is 10cm shorter than me, heavily boned, exercises regularly and eats frugally and is still heavier than me. That's the way she is made. I feel guilty because I don't exercise (except running after kids) and I think I make her feel bad about herself.
And now that I have 2 girls I worry about messages they are already receiving from the media about how they 'should' look. So the best I can do is strive to teach them to feel comfortable and happy within themselves regardless of outward appearances.
Well I know it's hard to just turn off guilt, but really, it's a shame, because as you say that's just the way your body works.
And I know what you mean about having two girls! I am so grateful that at this point my kids don't know the difference b/w what society deems 'ugly' or 'beautiful', nor do they seem to make a distinction between fat and thin. That's not to say they never comment on appearance as they certainly have out of curiousity, but they haven't learned yey all of the societal expectations about how people are supposed to look.
OK that's a little bit of a lie as my son has realised that most boys don't wear pink or dresses (shame really as I wouldn't mind either) - but that's mainstream kinder for you *sigh*
I've read both these posts and I didn't comment on the first, because I wasn't sure I could write what I was thinking eloquently enough!!! (Kind of ironic really considering!)...
It's taken me 43.5 years to finally accept that "I am". I am who I am and neither you (the figurative "you", not you in particular) cannot make me feel less about me.
I don't think that 'acceptance of my body size' has ever been the issue for me, rather the acceptance of 'me' as a whole person.
I gave up performing for 20 years because I thought no one would want to see a fat chick rocking around on stage - and while realistically for the business side of muusic that's true - people still want to hear me sing no matter what - and now as a songwriter - it really doesn't matter.
As far as my career goes, I've not got a (complete) university degree, but I've never let that stop me...although I've met many people who think that I am a lesser person for not having completed it.
Bugger I don't know where this is going or meant to go - but for me I think it all happened when I stopped comparing myself to anyone else in order to recognise if I was 'good enough'....or not.
FTR I dont think I'm being at all eloquent right now either!
Thanks for sharing your thoughts on this :)
Taz
http://knittywomanonatrain.wordpress.com
Taz I think that is so true! I mean there is so much more to say on all this and I don't feel particularly eloquent myself because there are so many tangents to this issue.
I know from the few times I've met you that you are both awesome and gorgeous! But even that would mean nothing if you didn't value yourself would it?
Nothing matters more than self acceptance at the end of the day. I think anyone who has that is going to be a fairly happy camper.
I'm overweight... at least that's what my Wii tells me LOL although still breastfeeding, so my weight seems to fluctuate wildly throughout the day depending on feeds. But I'd be only about 10-12kgs more than I "should" be. For me it's more about being healthy and feeling fit, not necessarily how much I weigh. I don't usually weigh myself at all tbh (just the Wii thing has me doing it more often these days). Fat is an interesting word, because it's actually a "thing", and it's very subjective, but it also comes with negative connotations in relation to people's appearance. People wouldn't look at me and think I'm fat I suppose, but I am not my ideal weight for my height, apparently. I would like to be healthier - not necessarily lighter - I'd like to be more in shape (i'm incredibly unfit at the moment) and less "wobbly" LOL but as for the number being less, I don't find that makes much of a difference to me. Saying that though, I have a brother and SIL who are morbidly obese. Not just overweight, beyond "fat" - life-threateningly overweight. This is where I think fat acceptance can go wrong. Yes, it's one thing to accept people as they are, no matter what they weigh/look like/how they dress etc, but when life is threatened due to lifestyle choices, then the acceptance that "fat" is ok is maybe not so good. They both have numerous health issues, which they argue are hereditary, and yes to an extent they do suffer from things that run in their families, but it's never a given that those things will affect you. Things like that can be and are exacerbated by lifestyle choices (although my family choose to deny this vehemently). It's scary to think that they accept themselves as they are, and this may lead to their lives behind significantly shortened.
ok, so thinking about what I wrote it may sound like I think that we shouldn't accept "fat" people in society. that's not what I think at all. I do agree that a person's appearance shouldn't have anything to do with their value as a person. Absolutely. I'm not sure how to word things without sounding "wrong", but it does sadden me that people like my brother and SIL have come to "accept" that that is the way they are. They live in denial that their lifestyle contributes greatly to their quality of life. I also don't necessarily think that being overweight=being unhealthy. I'd really like to see more promotion of healthy lifestyles out there, rather than size. There's so many people leading sedentary lifestyles (me included). I guess that probably fits with the HAES you've mentioned. Like I said before, I'm not so much concerned with the NUMBER that I weigh, as I am with the condition of my body. If I weigh the same, or I'm carrying extra weight, as long as I feel healthy and fit (which I don't right now), I don't care too much how much I weigh. There would be a point where I'd be unhappy with the number though, but then for me I suspect a large number would=unhealthy/unfit, which is something I don't want for myself.
Yeah I think the point is fat people are discriminated against on a daily basis. The fat acceptance movement is about acceptance of fat people. What is says about fat itself, I'm still learning...Accepting yourself as a fat person does not preclude aspiring to health - but a lot of research shows that actual dieting can be very unhealthy.
So I don't think anyone would promote being morbidly obese as a good thing or aspire to be morbidly obese, but it's a slippery slope when all and sundry get to comment on it, because the next thing you know, real discrimination is put in place.
People make lifestyle choices all the time that we may not agree with, but I'm not sure why we (the collective we) feel it's ok to pass judgement on SUCH a large scale with respect to fat people.
As someone who is only 10kg heavier than my 'ideal' weight (apparently), I get to escape that scrutiny and yet still feel bad (embarrassed no less) about myself having a muffin top etc. I can only imagine how hard it must be being fatter than that and being bombarded by the not good enough messages.
I do think it's at least in part a feminist issue too, because as the mainstream womens magazines would have us feel, we will never be good enough (or else how will they sell product!)
I can guarantee you that my husband and his peers aren't thinking about their expanding waistlines with nearly as much vigour, and certainly if they are I doubt it's with shame...
I totally agree. I know what I"m saying is not translating to what I'm thinking LOL I certainly don't believe that overweight/obese people deserved to be shunned/ridiculed/harrassed or whatever, by other members of society. There are certainly lots of lifestyle choices that others make that irk me - smoking for eg. And if I'm honest I do make my disdain for the habit vocal, because it does affect me to an extent - when my children and I have to walk through the cloud of smokers lurking near the shopping centre doors, or in situations like recently when some woman flicked her ash all over my child. I know that other's weight doesn't affect my life AT ALL. Personally I think that if someone is happy to be overweight, then that's fine with me. I try not to be judgemental, but I know I'm not always successful (and that would relate to many things, not just someone's size). As I've got older I've become more aware that unless what other's do affect me directly, then I really don't have any right to judge them on it. I try to make sure my kids know that people come in all shapes and sizes, colours and that we're all humans with feelings even though we may look different - we go to a very multicultural school, and seeing African, Asian and Aboriginal children and families is "normal" for them in their daily life. It makes me happy that L notices this only to the extent that when he's trying to tell me who he's talking about at school he says "they have the same skin as so-and-so" (because he doens't know how else to describe them I suppose, but he never questions why they look "different"). It would be nice if overweight people weren't maligned in society. If you could walk down the street and not notice that someone has a larger body than you, or whatever. I agree that women's magazines don't help and that it certainly seems to be a feminist issue. As a woman I try not to be judgemental about things like that. I too probably escape scrutiny as I walk down the street, even though I'm technically overweight. I don't have any idea of what it is like to be so large that people feel the need to comment loudly and publicly about my size. I certainly don't do that, but I know that I am guilty of thinking things that are unfair at times. Hopefully I can bring my children up to be happy with themselves and to want to live a healthy lifestyle, and to not be judgemental towards others for whatever reason.
Maybe the reaction to being overweight comes from people's fear (for want of a better word) of being overweight themselves? I don't know many people who can eat/drink whatever they want, have no physical activity and not have a weight issue. I know that for me it would probably be quite easy to become really overweight if I didn't keep myself in check - recognising when I'm eating too much, and too much of the wrong thing and not getting enough physical activity. It's easy to plonk yourself in front of the tv with a block of chocolate. Not so easy to get up and go for a walk, ride a bike etc. I suspect that a lot of the negativity comes from this "fear" and unfortunately things like magazines and the fashion industry certainly do feed that fear in a lot of people.
Not sure if you have read this, but thought it was interesting -
http://www.fatnutritionist.com/index.php/the-obligation-to-be-healthy-at-every-size/
I did read it and thought it was great!
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